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Michael Jackson Justice: Day 2 of Michael Jackson Conrad Murray Trial

God: Reconnect to Him

The Conspiracy against God is about "The Word", and the profaning of His Holy Name within us. Adam fell in the garden, breaking the direct connection to God. Jesus, the "last Adam" was a quickening Spirit, the Word made Flesh, and the only one with whom we can re-establish our relationship with God. Michael's story is still unfolding. He is the one who is, is not. But Jesus is the only name given under heaven by which we must be saved. Many are trying to rewrite HIStory. We were given a help to instruct us. Learn more "here".

Wednesday, September 28, 2011

Day 2 of Michael Jackson Conrad Murray Trial


Michael Jackson Conrad Murray Trial
Day 2






Kathy Jorrie was questioned after Gongware today who finished up from yesterday.  She is an Partner with Hamilton and Scripps, AEG’s legal firm.  She is the one that drew up the contract for Dr. Conrad Murray, with terms given to her by Tim Wooley of AEG.  She only talked to Wooley or Murray about this contract.  She never talked to Michael directly. 

It was interesting that according to the contract terms itself, the contract was not even in force unless all parties signed, meaning Murray, Murray’s “company”, Michael and Phillips for AEG Live.  This was never done.  This means that AEG cannot be held liable for equipment that Jorrie testified that Murray told her he needed IN LONDON.

The first call to draw up the contract from Wooley came to Jorrie in June. The first draft of the contract was not emailed until June 15, 2009. 

Jorrie testified that payment for Murray, once the contract was agreed upon and signed by all parties would be retroactive back to May 1st, 2011.  Yet Murray had ordered and delivery of the first order of Propofol arrived at Murray’s girlfriend’s apart ment on April 6, 2009 according to yesterday’s opening statement by Walgren.

This means that Murray was acting either on his own, or under someone else’s authority in the ordering of the Propofol.

It is irrelevant what terms were in the contract or what AEG was responsible for because according to Jorrie, most of the medical provisions were to begin once they reached London.  This is even a moot point since the contract was never signed and put in force.

Michael Amir Williams was called to the stand after Jorrie cross exam.

Michael Williams answered questions pertaining to the times Murray was at the Carolwood home.

Michael had a private cell phone that he would have to change frequently.  Amir would call for him or give him his phone to make calls outside his private circle.
Williams would call Murray for Michael

Last rehearsal June 24 – 5or 6pm arrived at Staples.  Multiple vehicles.  He attended with principle vehicle with Michael.  Michael in back.

Williams testified that Michael was in good spirits.  He wanted to be on time.  No problems.

Fans outside – underground parking.  To Rehearsal.  Was able to watch that night.  Describes amazing performance.

Ended around Midnight.



Loaded vehicle with paperwork before leaving the last night of rehearsals.  Williams called ahead to make sure house was set up.  Williams testified to the same fans racing ahead to meet Michael at his home.  The same fans that would follow him from home to the Staples or Forum.  I found that interesting but we knew about these people.  Michael talked to them. 

Dr. Murray was there at the house.  Amir didn’t remember talking to him that night.

Material/gifts were brought into house, first two steps.  Michael said goodnight and they (fans) and they would drive in the gate, leaving fans outside.

Security goes to their trailer – debriefed but Amir doesn’t take part.  He went home.

There was 24 hour security.  Security would perimeter check, open gate or monitor cameras.  Williams, Mohammed and Alvarez were travel security.

June 25th

Williams received phone call from Murray about 12:13pm.  But he was in shower.  Checked phone called back at 12:15pm.

“call me right away” thank you. From Murray.

Not asked to call 911. 

Called back.  Murray told him where are you.  Get here right away, MJ had bad reaction.  Get someone up here immediately.

Saved his voicemails.

I could not hear voice recording of Murray on Amir’s phone.

“Please call me right away, thank you”.  Work home and mobile number.

Williams contacted security on the property to get to Murray’s assistance. 

Williams’s phone records submitted exhibit 15.

Amir called Faheem Mohammed, asked Mohammed to turn around and go back to the house.  12:18 to Alberto Alvarez calls back and forth.

Call to Derek Cleveland.  Security at the house.   They were Michael’s more personal security house security.  Talked to Alberto finally, Security trailer, he said you have to go inside the house and he didn’t know what was going on.  Stayed on phone.  Alvarez was at front door looking in.  Nanny opened the door.  Got permission to go upstairs.  Amir could hear Murray’s voice in background but  not what he said.

Alberto hung up on Williams at that point.

He was aware Ambulance was called, drove to the house while making calls.  Traffic made it took longer.  30 or 40 minutes.

Ambulance was already there.  They were bringing gurney down (medics).  Frantic.  Murray came down too, gurney had MJ on it.  Down front stairs.  Murray was by ambulance talking to medics.  Children were loaded into the car to follow ambulance.

Doesn’t remember if children saw dad on gurney as they brought him down.

Murray looked frantic.  Murray told Amir he was riding in ambulance.  They followed.

Amir was in blue Escalade.  He was in vehicle with Nanny Rosalind and children.

Went to UCLA hospital.  Amir’s role was with the children.  Shielded them from spectators. Cameras were everywhere.  Took children to a private room with their nanny and put a guard outside the door.  From there he went to where MJ was being taken with doctors working on him.

He was outside curtain.  People were starting to come in.  Frank DiLeo, then Phillips then family began coming in.

He learned MJ was pronounced dead.  Amir testified that Murray approached him in a hallway and made a request, how horrible it was, tears.  Murray said there was some crème that MJ wouldn’t want the world to know about it.  He wanted ride back to house to retrieve it.  Amir said no.  He said “let me check”.  He went to Mohammed about the request.  He told Mohammed they can’t let Conrad back in house.

He told Mohammed he would tell Murray police had their keys.  He told Conrad that he no longer had keys.  Admitted he lied.

Why did he lie?  Amir didn’t want to say he would not take him back.  He said Murray wanted a ride to get food.  He just shrugged it off.  He then went to Mohammed told him to make sure security doesn’t let anyone in or out, used terms lock it down because Murray requested to go back.

Didn’t see Murray again after that.  He gave Murray’s contact info to detectives that day.  Does not know what time he left hospital.  Amir said he checked with family security and arranged to run deception in the escalades so family could get back home.  Police were at Carolwood when Amir got back.

He did speak to police – asked for a timeline.  In August of 2009 he had interview with detectives.  Oxygen tanks were normal the last few months.  He said sometimes the children would bring them back down.

Photographs shown of oxygen tanks in security trailer . . . different sizes.

Sign says “Please take oxygen tanks as soon as place opens”.  Amir would instruct or assign a guard to pick up oxygen tanks from location to home.

CHERNOFF CROSS EXAMINE WILLIAMS

August 31st told detectives about crème at home.

Doesn’t remember police officer calling him 2 days after Michael’s passing.

Asked about locking down the house.  Asked him about lying to Murray about keys.  Amir explained why he did not want anyone asking to go back to the house.  Amir didn’t think anyone was allowed back at the house.

Amir said about 5 officers were at house.  He said he was at Carolwood and did not tell police about Murray’s request to go back to house that day.

They asked for a timeline and Amir verified after “badgering” from Chernoff about the use of the word DETAIL.

Chernoff asked about Amir’s affection for MJ and if he watched news stories trying to find out what happened.  Murray asked about Crème after MJ pronounced dead.  Testified that Murray was with other doctors as they worked on MJ.

Amir talked to Michael several times a day.  Didn’t know how Murray and MJ met.

Chernoff tried to get questions in about previous assistants but was objected three different times and told to change subject area.

Chernoff then reviewed testimony about phone calls to and from Murray.  Chernoff tries to pressure Amir into determining the emergency judging by Murray’s tone during voice mails.  Objections raised and sustained.  Amir testified he followed instructions based on Murray’s requests and had no reason to believe it was a fatal situation.

Chernoff asked about the date Amir was visited by Joe and Randy Jackson.  Objection raised and sustained.  Chernoff decided to break for lunch

During this time I listened to Micheline’s voice mail to me about Arnold Klein’s interview with Larry King. She mentioned listening to this and thinking this recording that Murray made of Michael on May 10th actually sounded like Klein, slowed down . . . same tone, same slurring type of annunciation, so I decided to compare:


Klien’s voice on Larry King I
July 2009
Not slurring as much

Klein Interview on Larry King I
October 2009
He is slurring speech here.


Now here is Murray’s recording of Michael’s voice
Again . . . Made May 2009


Just my opinion but the recording to me does not sound like Klein.  It sounds like Michael slowed down via processing.  Let me know what you think.  If you listen to “2000 Watts”  That voice does not sound like Michael either in parts, but  it is him, slowed down and pitch changed in production”.

After Break, Williams is asked about when Alvarez and Mohammed started working for Michael. 

Chernoff asks Williams about security company Security Measures and if Alvarez and Mohammed worked for  them.  The answer was no.

Williams did not remember if the Aug. 31st included Mohammed  and Alvarez at the same time but said they may have crossed paths.

Chernoff asked if he and the two security had opportunity to discuss the events of June 25th after that day.  Williams said it was possible.

Williams begins to stumble when trying to explain when he made the video of recording Murray’s voicemail.  Especially when questioned about why no other voicemails appeared and if Alvarez or Mohammed called.

Michael had his own personal cell phone which AEG had the number.  This number changed frequently.

Williams and security would pick up Michael’s prescriptions and for the children. They would also accompany him  to Dr.’s offices.

Testified to Michael talking slow after leaving Klein’s office.

Williams made calls for Michael including to Dr. Murray.

Dr. David Adams sounded familiar to Williams.  He didn’t remember calling him at all. 

Williams testified to waiting for family to get there . . . new security was there, police said family had to wait until they were done.

He said entire security staff was replaced and he did check with someone involved with AEG to make sure it was okay.





Redirect examination by Walgren

Asked about slow speech pattern after leaving Kleins.  He asked about the Iphone recording again.  Said he never heard Michael like that.

Recross – Chernoff

Cheryln Lee.  He said that Fahim had called because Michael had not been feeling well.

On People calling of next witness counsel asks to approach the bench.


Mohammed is asked about the phone call about turning around to go back to the house.  Mohammed phone records submitted.

12:18 Mohammed called Derek, didn’t remember if it was voicemail or not.

Called Williams at 12:23pm because they didn’t usually go into the house.  He then went upstairs.

This conflicts with the records of  when 911 was called (12:21pm) and Paramedics arriving at 12:26pm.

12:26 and 12:27 Williams called where he did not answer.

He went upstairs through landing into his bedroom.  Room to the right.  Michael’s real room to left, Moh. Went to bedroom to left.

He saw Alberto pacing, MJ’s feet on side of bed on the ground, then rest of his body, and Murray near his side.  According to Mohammed, Michael was on far side of bed from entry.  Said Alverez said it didn’t look good.  Eyes were open, mouth slightly open appeared to be dead.

Prince and Paris were in the landing, Paris in ball on ground crying, Prince starting to cry.  Got nanny’s attention and got them downstairs.

Murray asked if either security know cpr.  Alvarez assisted Murray as Mohammed went to move children.

He walked down with the nanny and children then went back upstairs.

Alvarez no longer assisting and Murray doing CPR himself.  He asked Alvarez if 911 had been called.

After he came back up, witnessed Murray and Alverez.  Got a vehicle ready in case they had to transport themselves.

After paramedics, he was in the room.  Left the room to put children in the car, second time to let security know to guard against paparazzi.

Saw I.V. stand.  Noticed no other equipment.  Did observe MJ coming down on gurney.  Children were already in one of the security vehicles.

Saw Michael loaded into vehicle.  Dr. Murray hopped into the ambulance and security followed ambulance to hospital.

Paparazzi tried to get pictures of body so security shielded with Jackets.  Instructed police to clear through them before anyone could enter hospital where Michael was.

From that point was back and forth making sure family got in but not people who were trying to sneak in.

He was there when Michael pronounced dead.

Was told by Williams that Murray requested to go back to house about cream.  Confirmed story about police taking keys.

15 minute break . . .


On return Walgren played a video of Murray leaving the waiting room.  He then testified that he remembered seeing the I.V. pole but couldn’t recall if saline bag or tubing was present. 

Remembered similar time of driving around after leaving hospital to act as decoy, then being called back to Carolwood by detectives.

Mohammed was asked if he saw Murray leave hospital and he said that yes, he did see him walk away from the hospital.


Cross exam by Chernoff

Asked about level of trust.  Asked if he always traveled.  Asked about condition of MJ when he left Klein’s office.

Michael visited Arnold Klein's office for the last time on June 22nd.  This would not  figure into meds given Michael at all on June 24th/25th.

Mohammed testified Michael occasionally being or acting intoxicated.  Chernoff asked if Michael ever told him why he was going  to Kleins.  He said, “You must think I’m crazy for going to Klein’s office so much.”

Mohammed stammers what he responded.

Chernoff said that Michael told him that he goes because he has a skin disease and
Mohammed agreed.  (I missed testimony of on Walgren’s questioning).

Why the questions about Klein if Klein is not being called?  Why is this allowed? 

Never saw other nurses or doctors come to the house.

Do you know who Cherilyn Lee who was hired for his children?  Mohammed knew her professionally, treated him before.  Mohammed said she never spent the night at the house.

Chernoff asked about Mohammed calling Cherilyn on Michael’s behalf.  Mohammed said Amir told him MJ had weird symptoms and one of his hands hot and one of his feet was cold.  Did not call Murray, just called Cherilyn.  Says he left message on initial call.  When she called back he doesn’t remember what they said.  Mohammed did not remember if Cherilyn Lee told him to call 911 or not.  He told no one about that situation and that Williams had reached Murray about that situation.  So no one has asked Williams about this?

Lee very rarely came to the house.   

No landlines in the house.

Paparazzi questioning, can’t let just anyone in.  Chernoff asks about his shift and why he left for the bank only an hour after he started his shift.

Mohammed doesn’t seem to remember where surveillance cameras were.  Mohammed agrees with Chernoff that he helped detectives remove and download surveillance tapes.   He doesn’t recall???

He doesn’t see amount of tape downloaded either.


Chernoff then asks about what Mohammed sees when he enters the bedroom where Michael is located.  Doesn’t remember seeing any medical paraphernalia.

Chernoff badgers about what Mohammed remembers about riding/driving from hospital.

Spoke to detective Abdul.  Standing to right of front door of Carolwood residence.

There were several attempts by Chernoff to steer Mohammed toward speculation of Michael’s condition coming out of Klein’s office. Chernoff was shut down several times with sustained objections, but I question why Klein is even brought into the picture.  It is understood that Klein is not even being called as a witness as Michael’s dermatologist over the last 30+ years.  Why are they asking bodyguards to speculate as to Michael’s condition and why he went to Klein’s office when Klein could very well testify.  Why don’t they call him.

On HLN tonight Klein’s lawyers were interviewed.  I missed this because of dinner and speakerphone conversation with my mother (yes at the same time, because I shut her down earlier in the day, during testimony).

I listened to part of Raymone Bain’s interview tonight and even though I had questions about some of the things I learned about her before, I totally agree with her on the questioning concerning Klein.  I was also VERY HAPPY to see her go on record about Schmuley.  I would like to remind her that Michael’s relationship with Schmuley/Geller was actually 2001, not the 15 or 20 years ago that she stated.

I also agree that Michael is NOT THE ONE ON TRIAL.  The defense wants to displace blame on demoral/Klein when this “DEPENDENCY” was last documented in the 1990’s.  Jermaine said he was not a drug addict and that the treatment for dependency was actually back in 1993.  (He also said 2001 in one interview, thanks Jermaine . . . I’m confused now).

Why is Klein even brought into this if Klein is not going to be questioned?

The cross exam breaks until tomorrow.  I thought Randy Phillips would have been questioned today since Gongaware was questioned, but that didn’t happen.

Nancy Grace is on the t.v. right now, so I’m turning off the t.v. because she is only rehashing what information Jane was going over. 

Ferrigno’s interview said Michael was in great shape, but Michael  told him over the phone a couple days before he passed that Michael told Ferrigno to “take care of yourself” which Ferrigno believed was rather odd.  He attributed it to

Lou Ferrigno also said that Michael wanted to reshape his body and come back as a “new Michael”.  (God, I have such a headache, again.  I need new eyeballs seriously, between computer and t.v. it’s nauseating).

I also had a difference of opinion with Nikki-gatorgirl about the photo shown yesterday.  I knew the Branca-bunch would latch onto any sensationally emotional angle they could to try and bully other views of the evidence and on such a blurry, inconclusive picture.  I just don’t understand the need for him to be dead . . . well, maybe I do.

Today’s testimony seemed to center around the drugs and the condition Michael was found in by security when they got upstairs.

Biggest takeaway from today – The admittance of evidence of medications speculated on from another doctor who will not even be called to testify and is completely irrelevant to both the autopsy report and the official cause of death.

Biggest shocker?  How does a doctor get to be a cardiologist without knowing CPR?  How does a doctor become a DOCTOR without knowing CPR?

You can’t even be a LIFEGUARD without knowing CPR!

Anyone wanting to comment to testimony by Gongaware, Jorrie, Williams or Mohammed today that I missed please feel free to post.

God Bless you.


The many Looks of Michael

30 comments:

  1. I know this is not exactly edited to the best of my ability, but I hope at least the information is clear. Trying to keep up with notes and listening too. A court stenographer I am not. I can't seem to dump the headaches so please bear with me.

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  2. Bonnie,Hi,Linda here. First,I'd like to say good job on your timeline.Next-1st the picture.I find it odd that there is even a picture to look at.Who took it and for what reason? I know that it's Michael Jackson,but What The... At that time the cause is not known,and why do you need to prop the gurney for someone who has died? 2nd-for what reason would the coroner need to go to the house of the deceased,only hours after,and before an examination? I've never heard of this happening before.Standard procedure???Peace.Linda

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  3. Bonnie,Hi,me again..Linda. Something else that I caught(and just double checked on).The security guard stated that Michael first contacted Murray in March to be his personal doctor.Murray started ordering propofol in early April,in very large quantities. According to the nurse,CheriLyn,Michael was begging her in April to get him propofol and a doctor to administer it.Why? He already had Dr.Murray.Peace.Linda

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  4. @Linda - Why is there even a picture? That was one of my first questions on day one. ComPLETELY unnecessary as a backdrop for a powerpoint presentation.

    I'm sure PART of that is Michael but that doesn't convince me it's a dead one. Where is the bottom part of his right leg? Where is his prominent wrist bone? I know it's a badly focused picture but???

    I agree . . . propped gurney, no cover, tape still on him, mouth open, I can almost hear him snoring.

    I can see coroner gathering evidence at the scene but usually when the body is still there! I'm unfamiliar with why he would go before examinging the body . . . that would be the first priority as promptness would assist a more accurate cause of death. (and time of actual death, which we do not even have yet).

    Why was the coroner not one of the FIRST WITNESSES called? Don't these people watch CSI? (I don't either but I've seen episodes back in 2005).

    You scratch my head and I'll scratch yours. (shrugs).

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  5. Linda said - "According to the nurse,CheriLyn,Michael was begging her in April to get him propofol and a doctor to administer it.Why?"

    ......... And why are NEITHER side lawyers catching these contradictions? Did you see the timelines on the calls compared to when paramedics were called? How can phone records be off?

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  6. Bonnie-Exactly! This is so "in your face",and not even the talking heads are commenting on it! On purpose? Scratches head.HaHa Peace.Linda

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  7. @Linda - Are you keeping up with Jermaine's book? (No wonder I have a headache - eyes no rest - will be blind by the time this is done)

    Note to Jermaine - I LOVE YOUR BOOK!!!! Your timing is impeccable, genius-man!

    Note to Michael (wherever you are) Pocket recorders are great, aren't they? :o) God must have a heck of a library. I wonder who does the cataloging for HIM?

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  8. Bonnie, my heart was pounding a bit by reading your above report. It is like watching with one's own eyes the tragic moments. The ones called to testify since Monday seem all reliable - tell me if I'm wrong. Paul Gongaware only seemed nervous & uneasy but his report was OK (in a way AEG was not interested in hiring an unknown C. Murray coming with extravagant financial pretences). Kenny Ortega's testimony sofar touched me most : factual also but seemingly charged with real sadness & feelings for Michel.

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  9. Bonnie,
    I think Blogger is playing up because it doesn't tell you if your post has been successful - just 'deletes' it! So I'll try once today instead of 5 times like yesterday!

    I think the defense are mentioning Klein's office because they are trying to show that Michael was taking other drugs and not telling Murray. They want to show Michael as regularly sedated and suggest he is an addict. They don't have to speak to Klein himself to imply this, just imply it by asking Michael's satff if they saw him 'speaking slowly' after visiting Kleins. Sneaky.
    So this testimony proves - Murray had a 'phone when he found Michael, but he didn't call 911 he called Williams. He didn't give any indication to Williams that Michael was seriously ill. Did he call ANY security that were onsite that morning?

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  10. Though I am not Twitter registered, I could read on Internet La Toya Twitters as of 09/27 & 28. These 2 struck me :

    latoyajackson La Toya Jackson
    @CNN @hlntv I feel like screaming! Murray knows exactly what happened at Carolwood and who else is behind all of this.
    27 Sept.
    and
    latoyajackson La Toya Jackson
    There Much more to Ortega's story and he knows it! @CNN @HLN we are back from our break! It
    28 Sept.

    La Toya always believed in a conspiracy theory but reading it again at the trial time is intriguing. If so, how come could C. Murray walk free for over 2 years without being shot ? As to K. Ortega, he "might" possibly know more but talks the minimum for now. I try not to get too confused with all we are going to hear or read until Oct. 28, 2011 but continue to think that any precise knowledge of facts or names speaking for a conspiration (if there was) should be deposited at the LAPD or the Prosecution & nowhere else..for it is dangerous. I myself still suspect there was a conspiration but in my place may only try & stick to the Court hearings.

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  11. HI Bonnie. I was looking for MJ's birth certificate on the net. Instead of MJ's, Prince Jackson's birth certificate popped up. It says that the fathers name is Michael Joseph Jackson and the child's name is Michael Joseph Jackson Jr. Maybe you can explain that to me.? Why does it say Joseph if his second name is Joe? Now I am going to try and find MJ's birth certificate. MJ look what you have done! We have become dectatives because of you, ha ha, or at least we are trying to be. RIP MJ, We miss you! Susanne

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  12. Hi Bonnie. I Can't find MJ's birth certificate. I searched on Google pictures I thought it would be easier and faster. When I type Michael Jackson birth certificate I get the children's, Obama's, Elvis and MJ's death certificate. The death certificate says Michael Joseph Jackson. And the children's birth certificates says the fathers name is Michael Joseph Jackson. Maybe he changed his birth name. Susanne

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  13. Line said - "Paul Gongaware only seemed nervous & uneasy but his report was OK (in a way AEG was not interested in hiring an unknown C. Murray coming with extravagant financial pretences). Kenny Ortega's testimony sofar touched me most : factual also but seemingly charged with real sadness & feelings for Michel. "

    ........ My assessment of Gongaware - Not an incredibly warm person. Typical business exec. personality. I was trying to determine his feelings about Michael during his testimony but all I felt was impatience with the questioning while reading him. K.O. was subdued. I also got the feeling that he, compared to Gongaware probably worked more closely, more personally with Michael just because of the difference in demeanor when asked questions specifically about Michael. It will probably be the same way with Phillips if he is called. Ortega is also an 'artist' in his own rite and would probably be more intimately relational with Michael in that way.
    -----------------------------------------

    Princess said - "They want to show Michael as regularly sedated and suggest he is an addict. They don't have to speak to Klein himself to imply this, just imply it by asking Michael's satff if they saw him 'speaking slowly' after visiting Kleins. Sneaky."

    ......... This shouldn't even be allowed. This is one of the reasons I suspect this whole trial. Why ask an employee of the deceased about what that employee THINKS he takes from a doctor you could very well call in as a witness for his 30+ year relationship with the deceased? Why are they not calling Klein?

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  14. Line said - "I myself still suspect there was a conspiration but in my place may only try & stick to the Court hearings."

    ...... There are odd pieces of information being thrown out there from both prosecution and defense council and nobody seems to be picking up on it. I will cover that tonight, but what I am also hearing OUTSIDE court by witnesses who will NOT be called (like Bain and Ferrigno) on interviews and this is following along Jermaine's book, hence my comment above last night. I wanna kiss that guy. I hope we get to hear some of what Jermaine talks about in his book. Patience . . .

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  15. Susanne said - "HI Bonnie. I was looking for MJ's birth certificate on the net. Instead of MJ's, Prince Jackson's birth certificate popped up. It says that the fathers name is Michael Joseph Jackson and the child's name is Michael Joseph Jackson Jr. Maybe you can explain that to me.? "

    ...... that is not Prince's real name. I will be posting copies of docs tonight that I have. I thought I had MJ's b.c. on file but I can't find it (I have no idea what drive I stuck it on) but I'm looking. I did however find 2005 court docs with Michael's legal name and the 2003 intial complaints with Michael's legal name. I also have a copy of the 2002 will with the children's names on them but they are off too.

    In looking all these documents up Susanne, it looks like documents pre-2006 in court docs are the middle name "Joe" and post 2006 are a mix of "Joe" and "Joseph" but all his death related documents INCLUDING THE 2002 FAKE WILL are "Joseph" for the middle name.

    I will post them tonight.

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  16. @Susanne - I also have copies of some of Michael's writings that include both Joe and Joseph, and If Michael set something up which I have suspected on and off that he had for some time been planning to try and slip these guys, he could very well have used both middle names just to add to their confusion.

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  17. Bonnie,Hi. Unfortunately,I have not purchased the book...yet.Money's tight.I did get LaToya's book and appreciate that you will be covering what is in Jermaine's.Thank you.Peace.Linda

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  18. CSI is a fictional TV programme. Any professional will tell you it is nowhere near real life. Sorry to break that bubble.

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  19. Hi Bonnie. Another strange thing. In one of the childrens birth certificate the mothers name is Deborah and in the other one its Debbie. I suppose she call herself Debbie and her birth name is Deborah but still shouldn't it be the same name on both of the children's birth certificates. And shouldn't it be your birth name and not your nickname? What if MJ had a twin brother that no one knew about. Or maybe he made a clone of himself. Just kidding. There must be another answer. MJ you didnt want people to read you like an open book. MJ you wanted to be mysterious and confuse people. You did a good job and we love you! Susanne

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  20. Hi Bonnie. I am sorry. I comment too much! You must think I am obsessed or something. Just one more question. Isn't Joe Jackson's real name Joseph? Susanne

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  21. Hi Bonnie. Guess who? You said that the whole family says that MJ's real name is Michael Joe Jackson. MJ dies and LaToya sign the death certificate. The death certificate says that the deceased persons name is Michael Joseph Jackson. Then the the family goes to Michael Joseph Jacksons funeral knowing that his real second name is Joe. That is logical. NOT!! Does that mean that he is alive? Maybe the performer was Michael Joseph Jackson and the private person Michael Joe Jackson. Does that make sense. His birth certificate is nowhere to be found. At least I can't find it on the net. This is driving me insane. Please help! Susanne

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  22. Hi Bonnie. I Read on forums.horsecity.com that MJ's birth certificate is unavailable on public record even to government employees with clearence. Hmmm ... Susanne

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  23. Hi Bonnie. Now I am definitely obsessed with this. What if it was MJ in public at the memorial after all. And maybe that's why Rebbie wasn't at the funeral and Katherine didn't want to go. They are the most religious in the family. Maybe he was thretened. Maybe the government saved him and gave him a new identity. And maybe you are right about the trial picture of MJ. Maybe he just sleeping. Maybe it was the big Intervention by the family saving his life. Maybe MJ didn't even know about it. Is this realistic or is it just my imagination. Maybe I should go and see a doctor. Maybe I am just going insane. Susanne

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  24. Linda said - "Unfortunately,I have not purchased the book...yet.Money's tight.I did get LaToya's book and appreciate that you will be covering what is in Jermaine's."

    ........ Money was tight for me too. I will be covering what is in Jermaines, but man! Doing that and the trial too? Lots of info in Jermaine's book. It's very sweet and I believe an incredibly insightful portrayal of Michael and Jackson family dynamic.
    -------------------------------------------

    Anonymous said - "Any professional will tell you it is nowhere near real life. Sorry to break that bubble."

    ......... Does this mean you don't think the coroner should be called as a witness? (they USUALLY testify, CSI or not) I guess sarcasm is not something you are used to? . . . sorry. :o)

    -----------------------------------------
    Susanne said - "I suppose she call herself Debbie and her birth name is Deborah but still shouldn't it be the same name on both of the children's birth certificates."

    ......... I agree it should be spelled the same. Don't know why it is not. I'm not sure of Joe Jackson's real name. I never saw his Birth Certificate, LOL. You can search for him on Wikipedia, if that is accurate.

    I agree it's not logical that Latoya would sign as a family rep for the death certificate if his name is incorrect on the certificate. Also if you look at the court docs from 2003 - 2005, Michael is not only Michael Joe, but his height and weight is listed as (at the time) 5'11" and 120 pounds. The deceased is 5' 9" inches and 136. Jermaine said Michael typically weighed around the 156 or so. Raymone Bain said Michael weighed about 165 when she last saw him in 2008. Autopsy report says 136. I can understand weight fluctuation but height???

    I know there was a link to his birth certificate online back in late 2009. That is where I had gotten it and thought I had copied it. They could have pulled it but I don't think so. It is supposedly public record now. I will look further when I have time.

    Michael alive - I will tell you what I believe, but the rest is up to you. I believe Michael is alive but I can not answer that question for others. There are people that post here that do not believe that and we get along fine. We just compare info and move on.

    Don't go crazy over it . . . pray about it. Trust me, there were times I thought I was going insane too. I knew I wasn't alone and that is originally why I first put up this blog.

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  25. Hi Bonnie. Thank you for your support. It feels good to know I am not the only one going insane over this every other day. I wonder where he is and what he is doing? I hope tha he is happy. Susanne

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  26. Hi Bonnie. I remember an Interview with MJ in the 80's or 90's. I don't remember who Interviewed him but I think it was a man. I saw it on TV. He was asked what he would do if he couldn't take his fame no more. MJ answered that he would fake his death. I was like yeah, right!! And pigs have wings and can fly too! Then he was asked about his death. MJ said that he wanted everybody to celebrate and he wanted fireworks and everything. I thought to myself, Why are you talking about death, you will die in like 100 years from now!! This was in the end of an Interview. It is not my imagination. With God as my witness I saw that Interview. I have been searching like crazy for it. But I can't find it. Susanne

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  27. Oh, the whole Joe & Joseph middle name debate...

    "In California the "usage method" (changing the name at will under common law) is sufficient to change the name." (No official paperwork is required.)

    "Any fraudulent use or intent, such as changing the name to the same name as another person's name, may invalidate this type of name change." (Joe and Joseph are different names.)

    "In criminal law, a fraud is an intentional deception made for personal gain or to damage another individual..." (Neither applies here.)

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Name_change

    Here's my current guess:
    A double was terminally ill and willingly gave his life for his friend. But long before he died, he changed his name to Michael Joseph Jackson and became that hospice patient the paramedics witnessed.

    Remember Jermaine's "slip up"? - "Michael was not with us way before he arrived to the airport...(several seconds elapse)...I mean way before he arrived to the hospital."

    The gurney photo - interesting how his head is turned slightly to the left, just how he was described on the bed on day 2 of the trial. Who released that photo?

    Who's fooling who? An intricate "escape" plan?

    A smile. Hope grows as evidence mounts...

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  28. Hey. Bonnie. Arnie Klein is not trust worthy. First he sat infront of a camera saying that Pheiffer and MJ were lovers. A year or so later he pops up again saying that he just found out that the lovers story was written by a ghost writer. Just found out!! Was he the ghost writer then. So when he said that they were lovers on TV he had no idea that a ghost writer made it up. He got that info one year later. How can anybody believe a word he says after that. Klein being called as a witness? Are you serious? Susanne

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  29. Hi Bonnie. It is so strange. Its like you see MJ one day and he looks like a skeleton. Then he pops up the next day and his weight is back to normal again overnight. Different height are weird too. I have read somewhere that we shrink and get shorter when we get older. But I. Don't think that process starts that early. Susanne

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  30. dear Bonnie,

    why is Jermaine lying about MJ body temperature being warm at the hospital.Something about Amir, Jermaine, Joe and possibly Randy and lotoya is fishy.The paramedics tried resuscitation for 45 minutes, This is my field of work and there is no way MJ was still warm. The chef is a liar and I am pissed off.

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