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Michael Jackson Justice: Conrad's Trial Teaching Us Lessons Michael Wanted Us to Learn

God: Reconnect to Him

The Conspiracy against God is about "The Word", and the profaning of His Holy Name within us. Adam fell in the garden, breaking the direct connection to God. Jesus, the "last Adam" was a quickening Spirit, the Word made Flesh, and the only one with whom we can re-establish our relationship with God. Michael's story is still unfolding. He is the one who is, is not. But Jesus is the only name given under heaven by which we must be saved. Many are trying to rewrite HIStory. We were given a help to instruct us. Learn more "here".

Wednesday, October 12, 2011

Conrad's Trial Teaching Us Lessons Michael Wanted Us to Learn

Day 9 Conrad Murray Trial
Michael’s Doctor Truly a Fall Guy

Miracle on the Little Speck of Dust

Romans 5:3
And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;

Romans 8:25
But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.

That goes for me too . . .

**********  Trial Starts  ***********

Walgren questions Dr. Steinburg, Cardiologist UCLA

Walgren begins the day’s testimony with Steinburg, opening with questions on his area of expertise and his credentials.

Walgren goes over the medical standard of care, and walks him through the testimony of Dr. Murray through the police interview.  As we progress through the questioning, I thought that Walgren’s having Steinburg, another cardiologist, answer questions based on what Murray had testified was a good idea.  As Steinburg repeatedly said, “in his own words”, it was one cardiologist grading the standard of care of another.  However Walgren was also asking him questions based on the testimony of other witnesses (like what bodyguard Alvarez saw, or what the contradicting paramedics saw), which was not based on Murray’s testimony.  I thought this was pretty messy and misleading.

Dr. Steinburg keep on reminding us about the two hands for CPR.  But then he also  expects Murray to administer Flumazenil, do CPR (he later says he shouldn’t have done chest compressions), take notes, open an airway and call 911.  This made me a bit angry especially considering that Steinburg is admittedly basing his opinion on Murray’s responses in the police interview, but he is reciting information given by other witnesses who have previously contradicted each other.

I found this odd too because Steinburg later says that Murray should have put Michael on the floor for proper CPR then later says he should have never begun chest compressions on a patient that still had a pulse.  Which is it?  This is something else Flanagan did not take opportunity with that I thought he should have. 

Steinburg kept insisting that Murray should have called 911, and I agree that he should have.  But he can’t expect Murray to do that, and all the other things he wants Murray to do in those two minutes he claims the medical standard of care grants a medical professional to assess a situation.  It is also fact that you don’t just take “seconds” to call 911.  Once you call 911 you are on that phone with them until they get there, which leaves Murray one hand shy to do what he needs to do.  Flanagan should have taken this up and he did not in his cross examination.

That being said, the rest of the prosecution’s questioning to Steinburg was that records were not kept as to Michael’s care, and Propofol should not have been used in a home setting without proper equipment.

Since the defense has not yet had a chance to present their witnesses in their case, we don’t know what happened to any records, if any Murray turned in, we don’t know how much Propofol was actually given except by Murray’s testimony which by ALL experts questioned is a miniscule amount.  And we don’t know what information Murray actually gave the medical staff.

We also have the issue of the “healthy” Michael and the “emaciated, hospice” Michael as per paramedics.  Another thing is the missing tube from the hanging IV bag that went to the patient’s leg.  Senneff, the paramedic testified to seeing Murray throw something in the trash, but pictures were taken by Fleak of that trash bag and no tube was in there.

We have a missing video tape that was allegedly wiped by police and we have a four day span of time that a scene of a death was open to contamination and manipulation.

Steinburg appeared smug and amused on the stand.  Just my personal opinion but I did not like him.  He was inarguably right about one thing though and that was, by Murray’s own police interview, he had given Michael Propofol in an improper setting.  While that is again not against any regulation (covered on day two) it is horrendously unwise, especially mixed with other drugs.  The question though SHOULD BE did Murray’s care kill this person or was there a lot more involved? 

Flanagan crosses Dr Steinburg

Steinburg, although a little smug, is trying to stick to the report of Murray’s own testimony.  This is at least more consistent than Walgren’s reciting of testimony from people already discredited with their own contradicting witnesses.

One clarifying moment, Flanagan is asking if it is possible for Murray to miscalculate the time he left the room.  Steinburg responds, “It would have been nice to have a medical chart and records”, to which Flanagan replies, “Yes, it would have been nice to have video too wouldn’t it?”  (Oooooooh moment).  That was a completely smart-ass comment from Flanagan and unnecessary.  Supposedly Steinburg would know nothing about a video in the house.  The Judge cracked down on him for that.

Flanagan’s line of questioning seems to be trying to discredit Murray’s own testimony, suggesting that he could have been gone from Michael LONGER than the two minutes he suggested.  Flanagan gets the doctor to say things that, “I know Mr. Jackson had a pulse” and “I know he was saveable” when he was not there.

Steinburg wants it both ways.  He wants to discredit Murray’s testimony while using it at the same time to determine an outcome of a situation he himself was not there to witness.  I wish more attention was paid to this tactic and called out.  While I do not agree that Propofol should have been given at home for sleep problems, fair is fair.

I began getting irritated with Flanagan’s ignoring of the opportunity to corner him on this, but he would just abandon his questioning.  It is possible that Flanagan, if I am right, is basically collecting responses to questions, to be used when defense presents his case.  He is good at getting them to state definite yes or no answers and these they can’t so readily get out of when revisited.

Now with the line of questioning where Steinburg is saying that Murray should have called 911, Flanagan also gets him to admit that “every minute counts”, so if Steinburg was sure that Mr. Jackson “could have been saved” if Murray called 911, their four to six minute arrival time would not have made a difference, even with Murray going back to CPR since this is what Murray was already doing.

Steinburg is expecting Murray to do an awful lot in his medical standard of care allocated 2 minutes of time “to assess the situation”, Call 911, give him “positive pressure”, Open his airway and give him the Flumazenil . . . all by himself.  How many hands does Murray have?

Flanagan is bringing up the contradiction between Murray’s report of Jackson’s condition and the paramedics report of Michael’s condition.

Flanagan asks again if there is any doubt in Steinburg’s mind that Jackson would be alive today if Murray had called paramedics.  Steinburg says yes, Michael could have been saved.  Flanagan then asks, “So if the paramedics had gotten there at say 12:05, he could have been saved”.  Steinburg responds that judging by Murray’s testimony of Michael still having a pulse at 12:12, that yes, Michael could have been saved.

If that is the case and Murray was giving CPR at that time, then why didn’t it save him? 

Flanagan asks if he is basing all his assumptions on Murray being correct about his estimates of time.

Steinburg says that a doctor mistakenly stating times in an emergency situation is not an egregious separation from the standard of care.  (Take note of this for later on).

Michael Blamed for causing harm to children on botched and manipulated evidence.

Walgren redirects

He asks Steinburg about Murray being wrong on the times and if that is why it’s important to have supporting documentation and Steinburg said yes.

Medical societies determine what is proper training and standard care.

Walgren asks about the sleep study article.

Flanagan recrosses

Flanagan asks Steinburg about the sleep study article.  Doctors will sometimes use drugs for off label purposes and that later becomes the norm in later years.  Steinburg concurs.  Flanagan does make a point as to why the sleep study and Murray’s care were judged on different merits.  Flanagan makes a good point that issues that Steinburg stated, like not having a battery for back up does is not determine the cause of death.  This was needed to keep things relevant to actual contribution to death.

Flanagan points out that Steinburg is making some pretty big assumptions since according to Murray’s testimony he gave Propofol for other days without a problem, so that just the giving of the Propofol was not the direct cause of death, (GOING BY MURRAY’S TESTIMONY OF 25 mg’s).

Steinburg states that it was the lack of monitoring that was the cause of death.  This I do not agree with.  Monitoring is not a direct cause of death.  That’s like saying the witness to a knifing is a contributor to the murder because they didn’t yell loud enough, when it was the actual weapon used and who wielded it that was the direct cause of death.

Walgren steps up to reiterate that Steinburg’s assumptions to Murray not monitoring, even assuming Michael self medicated while Murray was gone, would mean Murray would have contributed to his death.

I don’t agree with this either. There is no law that makes liable a doctor for the action a patient takes once that doctor has left the room.  (don’t get upset with me, I am not saying Michael did anything. We are basing this on what Murray stated on the tape and the experts testifying that 25mg of Propofol would not have killed Michael or even left him asleep for long.)

Walgren calls Dr. Nader Kamangar for Prosecution
Pulmonary critical care and sleep medicine physician at Olive UCLA

Walgren questions him on sleep problems in relation to the chronically ill and aged patients and the study that has been done on the effects of age and illness on the ability to sleep.  This questioning was in relation to them using Propofol to sedate a patient for everything from uncomfortable medical procedures to enabling sleep  for those who are ill, taking medications that alter sleep or to give relief from chronic pain.

He has used Propofol for placement of endotracheal tubes for breathing and they sometimes use Propofol for sedation on an ongoing basis while they are on a ventilator.  All this questioning is to establish the other uses of Propofol that is not for a surgical purpose. 

Kamangar elaborates on the caution that needs to be taken in using Propofol such as patients that come in that are unstable, or have low blood pressure or who is infected.  (This would include Michael if he did indeed have low blood pressure).

When used as deep sedation, it is even more important to closely monitor.  He explains even in other circumstances that Propofol is being used it should be monitored for changes in the patient so that you can bring him out when there are problems.  I felt in listening to Kamangar  that he was a bit more diplomatic and fair in his testimony on how Propofol is used.

Walgren asks who is present during use of Propofol, there should be an intensivist or an anesthesiologist.   He said there are hospitals that may not have E.R.’s who  have an anesthesiologist overnight but those doctors are confident and have other personnel to assist while they are anesthestitizing a patient.  He did allow that in the case of an emergency there might not always be an airway specialist present as in the case of a code blue and that things can happen.

Walgren then asks Kamangar to explain his statement about Murray’s extreme deviation of standard care.  His explanations  centered on the use of Propofol outside a clinic or hospital setting, without an airway management expert or an anesthesiologist present.  – In this I agree, but keeping in mind that it is a deviation but not illegal.

I notice that he mentions the use of Propofol for “sedation” and this is something I believe the defense is going to pick up on.  He then goes on to explain the importance of details of clearing an airway in case of depressed respiration where they would have to open up the airway.  This again supports the need for additional personnel to be present when using Propofol.  This is the one fact that in fairness to either side, Murray should have considered.

Kamangar, at Walgren’s prompting, then goes through the list if equipment and its purposes that should be present when deep sedating a patient.

Walgren asks about Murray’s neglecting of calling 911 when Murray didn’t have the necessary equipment to bring Michael back (CPR not being acceptable I guess), but he is right in the explanation that the necessary equipment AND personnel should have prompted Murray to call 911 instead of continuing CPR which is really a temporary measure of respiratory/circulatory support.  There are explanations on Murray’s testimony to police in regard to this question that do not make sense to me.

While I agree with Kamangar completely with the information thus far presented, I will still need to hear defense’s witnesses before condemning Murray.

With everything being said this far, I agree with one thing with regard to the prosecution . . . Propofol should never have been used in the setting thus far described.

What was interesting that came out of questioning of Kamangar by Walgren was the discussion of the use of Propofol as a sleep aid for insomnia.  This opened up some really stark realities that reminded me of my own son.

I could not agree with Kamangar MORE on the need to find the underlying cause of the insomnia before just medicating and that to medicate a sleep disorder without thought to find the underlying cause was a bit unethical.

I found this statement a bit unfair to Murray because he has already stated he was trying to wean Michael off of the drugs.  We don’t know that the behavioral approach was tried because as Kamangar said, Murray forwarded no records.  But we have only heard this from the prosecution’s witnesses.  Since other pieces of evidence have gone missing, do we know that Murray did not submit records and they just disappeared?  I would like to await the defense’s cause before making this call.

With that being said, it seems that these fellow doctors who are testifying against Murray for failing “ to find an underlying cause” are in fact opening up a can of worms that has infected every single possible prescription written by every doctor in the country.

We have a country that not only advocates the medicating of mental illnesses without really determining an underlying cause to medicating the children in our schools, in some cases without parental consent, just because they won’t sit still in their seat during class.  Is it not unethical to do this to children too?

This problem is an epidemic that is not just isolated to Murray and Michael Jackson and I have a son who was victim of this very practice. 

I get the feeling as we continue peeling back the layers of evidence in this case that Dr. Murray is not the only one on trial here, and for the record, I am very, very happy to see what I am starting see developing in this trial.

Dr. Murray is the fall guy . . . For what and how many people exactly, remains to be seen.  But I am crying at the hope that this is turning into what I think it is turning into.

We have not even seen the presentation of the defenses case yet and so far we have shed light on the collusion between government agencies and the media, government agencies and politicians (local and otherwise), the medical field and government officials, the collusion between pharmacies and doctors, the implications of deviations of police and coroner investigations and the ease in which drugs are used to mask instead of cure underlying conditions in health.  Then there is also the hypocrisy in the practice and implementation of all of the above.

We have one more day of testimony this week (so I’m told.  No court on Friday).  I will surmise at this point that the prosecution will most likely rest, early next week.

In the meantime, here are some videos that might help explain what the pharmaceutical industry is all about and where it started.  Yes, Michael knew.  It’s in his songs.

Robert Kennedy Jr.  on Cover Up with Vaccines

Robert Gallo – The Man That Created Aids

God Bless you and Keep the Faith.


  1. Bonnie,"In the news",the supposed Iran terrorist plot that was stopped.It made me think of an old stand-up act by Dave Chappelle. He states that if Michael Jackson is in the news,we're getting ready to start a war somewhere.P.S. Keep up the good work on the trial,it's nice to hear a voice of reason through all this.Peace.Linda

  2. Linda,

    Thank you! Yes, I completely intended to include a link about that when I saw it on Twitter and My husband said it looks like we're getting ready to start a war with Iraq.

    Don't people see this pattern? How many times does this poor excuse of a government get to play the "terrorist" card to justify their wars before people wake up?

  3. Bonnie,There are people waking up.I'm not so sure that the numbers are quite there yet. I also saw an article(source?)where Iran has denied these claims and the U.S. is using this as a diversion on the American people.Peace.Linda

  4. Hi Bonnie. Latoya said that MJ died between 9-10 am. I thought that doctors could tell exactly how long a person has been dead. I thought that was the first thing to be done. Find out exactly how long the person has been dead. Maybe that is the case only in the movies, I dont know. But if Latoya is right then Flanagans discussions about minutes back and forth with a witness becomes ridiculous. Susanne

  5. Looking up some info: Pg 28. No Dr. Aaron or Aron Steinberg, cardiologist or otherwise . . . there is a Michael Steinberg though.

    He's not on this list either for UCLA

  6. Dr.Nader Kamangar, Pulmonary critical care and sleep medicine physician at Olive UCLA:

    Not on this list either:

    THIS is flipping interesting!

    David Geffen School of Medicine?

    Is this like, the same David Geffen that co-owned DREAMWORKS with SPIELBERG? The one that STOLE Michael's IDEAS AND LOGO???

  7. Richelle Cooper - Emergency Medicine UCLA Ronald Reagan Medical Center:

    Nguyen, Thao

    Aaron Steinberg

    Nader Kamangar Not in Pulminary disease either.

    Am I looking in the wrong place? I did a search throughout UCLA Medical Care System and Ronald Reagan Center both!

  8. Linda said - "I'm not so sure that the numbers are quite there yet. I also saw an article(source?)where Iran has denied these claims "

    ....... Of COURSE. Figures it was Diane Feinstein that released that information to the press.

    Susanne said - "Latoya said that MJ died between 9-10 am. I thought that doctors could tell exactly how long a person has been dead. "

    ....... Now, if the doctors don't know, do you think Latoya is going to know, when she admittedly hadn't even seen Michael since the May dinner with their parents? Latoya was only estimating given the same information they've been batting back and forth in court. Like Jermaine said and Jackie said . . . the family knows what's going on and they know what happened. Latoya is only putting out the information she was told. You'll see. :o)

  9. @Susanne - Yes, you are right about the fact that the FIRST thing they usually do is determine the TIME of death. That is part in parcell to determining the CAUSE of death. Isn't it funny that none of the doctors interviewed so far, INCLUDING the coroner can seem to come up with a definitive time of death? It should have been very easy . . . he supposedly wasn't dead that long. Body temperature alone should determine that.

  10. Bonnie,
    There is also the collusion between doctors themselves, passing on details of who has the propofol and where you can go to have it administered. I think this collusion shocked me the most in fact.

  11. Hi Bonnie. If as they say that Murray was on the phone for 40 minutes MJ could have been dead for at least 40 minutes when Murray found him, right? IF he is dead. We can't be sure if he is dead or not. Susanne

  12. @PrincessGlam -
    Yes, you are right, PLUS this happens with steriods and other "performance" drugs in the sports industry. I have been all over this since reading in Jermaine's book his description of walking into that hotel room after Bob Jones tried to stop them only to find Michael hooked up to IV's. Performance drugs will keep you from SLEEPING WHEN YOU FINISH AN HOUR AND A HALF TO TWO HOUR CONCERT.

    That is why I was so enraged! I can't BELIEVE they did this to him!!!!!

    Linda, when I commented and said "looks like we're going to war with Iraq" you know I meant Iran, right? We've already done Iraq twice. Zionists want Iran now.

  13. Hi Boonnie. On the blog post before this one you mentioned Bin Laden in a comment. My opinion is, If Osama Bin Laden was behind the 9/11 attack it would not have taken The U.S. ten years to nail him. They found Sadam Hussein after was it two weeks? If the U.S. want to find somebody they find him and it doesnt take that long. Susanne

  14. This is the sweetest thing. Someone typed this in my search results:

    مايكل جاكسون اغنية كراي

    When I ran it through the Google Translate from Arabic to English this is what it said:

    Michael Jackson Song Cry|en|%D9%85%D8%A7%D9%8A%D9%83%D9%84%20%D8%AC%D8%A7%D9%83%D8%B3%D9%88%D9%86%20%D8%A7%D8%BA%D9%86%D9%8A%D8%A9%20%D9%83%D8%B1%D8%A7%D9%8A

    In Arabic - they know his songs. :o)))

  15. Hi Bonnie. You have to check out people magazine on today's Google news! There is a picture of Blanket and he is SMILING. He is so CUTE!! Susanne

  16. Bonnie,Yes I knew you meant Iran.Michael Jackson song Cry...that's pretty awesome!
    Are you saying that those doctor's in court are not listed where they should be? That's very,very, interesting.It makes no sense at the same time it makes perfect sense.Peace,Linda

  17. Susanne said - "My opinion is, If Osama Bin Laden was behind the 9/11 attack it would not have taken The U.S. ten years to nail him. "

    ......... I agree. Osama was one of our CIA. They most definitely could have taken him out any time they wanted. Obama is lying, Rothschild robot.

    @ Susanne - Blanket . . . you mean THIS one?,,20536231,00.html Yeah I have it. Finally a smile! Lil' cutie. That's about the age that my niece came out of her shell too.

    @Linda - Yes, they are not listed in the whole UCLA healthcare system. I didn't check the forensic doctors because I knew they were working for the coroners and not the UCLA Medical system. Just the ones named above and searches turned up nothing. I'll do a medical board search later today.

    Did you catch the David Geffen Medical Center? I wonder if the research department employs Nazi doctors there.

  18. Dear Bonnie,

    All medical personal are trained to do all these things....okay! That's what makes us so special. Lol!Murray messed up big time and he gonna pay for it.I wonder why the media wasn't playing those testimony over and over again last night.He should be going down for murder, I think its disgusting that these people are using "deviation of care" to cover a murder. When Murray found MJ unresponsive he should have immediately yelled get help call 911 if know one is there you call 91q yourself then airway, its very important to. Have a medical team on there way. Murray knows this, the trained eye knows this is murder.

    I'm sick its disgusting

  19. Bonnie, background info on Dr. Alon A. Steinberg heard at Court on 10.11.2011 :,template&cpid=18507

  20. Nita,

    How can you determine what Murray did or did not do without hearing any of the defenses witnesses? If that happened in 2005, Michael would have died in jail!

    We have missing evidence, we have a compromised crime scene, we have prosecution witnesses that contradict themselves.

    What trained eye are you talking about?

    Condemning someone without giving them a chance to defend themselves against their accuser is NOT justice. Going by your standards you just presented above, Michael would have been in jail in 2005. This isn't a lynching or a witch hunt. This is a trial. We have NOT even had the defense present their case or their witnesses yet. I'm not willing to burn Murray at the stake yet.

  21. @Nita - keep in mind that these people testifying right now . . . the PROSECUTION'S WITNESSES, are of the same networked establishments that colluded to try and put Michael in jail. Something stinks about that as well.

  22. @Line - Thank you for looking that up. So he's not with UCLA.

    Expert Reviewer/consultant for the Medical Board of the State of California

    Paid witness.

  23. @Line:

    "Dr. Alon Steinberg specializes in adult cardiology. He is conversant in Spanish and Hebrew."

    Hebrew? Source

    At the expense of sounding discriminatory, I'm going to take the risk of again pointing out the conspiracies Sung about, talked about by both Michael and 'OTHERS'.

  24. Dear Bonnie,

    Its not my standard its medical procedure when you find somebody unresponsive. Murray said in his testamony what he did. what I mean by trained eye is people in the medical field. It is pounded in your head what to do when you find a person unresponsive. Murray didnt do it... plain and simple. I heard and Read murray transcripts unless hes lying I have nothing else to go by. Everyting Murray did was wrong Bonnie, and he meant to do it wrong, on purpose. How do I Know... His actions you have to know procedures to see it, to feel it. Thats why they went for manslaugther because the average person would not pick up on murder and thats why the other doctors that testify against him are going all in on him because they know what he did(murder). Yes I understand that these people where aganist MJ, but Murray Messed up. He Brave a$$ hell.
    Lord please let this be a dream.

  25. Nita -

    Okay let's go by the evidence . . . In order for their to be a murder and in order for them to prove beyond the shadow of a doubt that a murder was committed, we have to have some very BASIC pieces of evidence.'

    WE DON'T EVEN HAVE A BODY! Not if we are to go by that piece of garbage autopsy photo the prosecution had the nerve to submit with photo shop errors all over the place.


    What we have is CIRCUMSTANTIAL EVIDENCE submitted by a prosecution.

    We hear Murray say what he did and he DID TRY TO REVIVE MICHAEL believing SECURITY WOULD CALL 911 since THEY HAVE TO OPEN the gate.

    If an AMBULANCE CANNOT GET INTO A LOCKED GATE because security is unaware anything is wrong what the hell good are they going to do? Give intubation from outside the gate?


  26. Bonnie – what do you think the defense put Murray on the witness stand? Do you think he will reveal more than what he said on his interview with the police? When he had the interview with the police, the case wasn’t a homicide case and he wasn’t also a suspect doing anything. Now he is charged in the death of Michael so it would be very good if he goes to that witness stand and tell the whole truth.

    He is the only one who knows everything if there are others behind him or not. I think he may save or not save his conviction if he takes the stand. I am not saying the defense have exhausted poking every hole to save their clients, and we still have to wait what they are going to present to make Michael responsible for his death or others beside Murray gave Michael the fatal dose. From what they have presented so far, it doesn’t seems like they are going to blame others for killing Michael but Michael himself. Therefore, In my opinion, Dr. Murray taking the stand is going to be vital for the defense.


  27. I wondered how long it would take to hear this statement.


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